We&#x27;ve curated a special 10-minute version of the podcast for those in a hurry. Here you can listen to the full episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jens-stoltenberg-how-norway-built-the-worlds-largest-fund/id1614211565?i=1000771963692 If anyone can tell the story of how Norway built the world&#x27;s largest sovereign wealth fund, it&#x27;s Jens Stoltenberg. As the fund marks its 30th anniversary, Nicolai Tangen sits down with Norway&#x27;s Finance Minister and former NATO Secretary General to trace the decisions that turned oil revenues into $2 trillion in national savings. They discuss why Britain and Norway diverged so dramatically despite producing similar volumes of oil, the thinking behind the spending rule, and the risk of complacency when wealth feels guaranteed. Stoltenberg also explains his reasoning behind suspending the ethics council, the paradox of excluding defence companies Norway itself purchases from, and what he believes will matter most for the fund in the next 30 years. Tune in! In Good Company is hosted by Nicolai Tangen, CEO of Norges Bank Investment Management. New full episodes every Wednesday, and don&#x27;t miss our Highlight episodes every Friday. The production team for this episode includes Isabelle Karlsson, Halvor Njerve and PLAN-B&#x27;s Niklas Figenschau Johansen. Background research was conducted by Une Solheim. Watch the episode on YouTube: Norges Bank Investment Management - YouTube Want to learn more about the fund? The fund | Norges Bank Investment Management (nbim.no) Follow Nicolai Tangen on LinkedIn: Nicolai Tangen | LinkedIn Follow NBIM on LinkedIn: Norges Bank Investment Management: Administrator for bedriftsside | LinkedIn Follow NBIM on Instagram: Explore Norges Bank Investment Management on Instagram Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

HIGHLIGHTS: Jens Stoltenberg 

In Good Company with Nicolai Tangen

# Full Transcript

**Podcast:** In Good Company with Nicolai Tangen

## Participants

- **Nicolai Tangen** (Norges Bank Investment Management)
- **Jens Stoltenberg** (None)

## Transcript

[SPEAKER_01] Hi everybody, tune in to this short version of the podcast which we do every Friday. For the long version, tune in on Wednesdays. Hi everyone, I'm Nicolai Tangen, the CEO of the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund and today I'm really excited because I'm here with a guest who has defined the last 30 years of Norway's place in the world. So warm welcome to Jens Stoltenberg. Thank you so much for having me. Now, you created the fiscal rule that turned Norway's oil money into the world's largest sovereign wealth fund. You've been Prime Minister twice.

[SPEAKER_01] You led NATO for 10 years. And now you are back as finance minister running the fund. You helped create. So very, very interesting.

[SPEAKER_00] It is a fascinating history and of course there have been many decisions making this fund possible. But actually, when I became finance minister 30 years ago in 1996, that was the year we made the first installment into the fund. And since then I've followed the fund very closely.

[SPEAKER_01] There's been some pretty big calls done here. So one to save the revenues, invest in equities. And then of course you also have the spending rule. So what do you think are the most important ones? And were they obvious at the time?

[SPEAKER_00] No. All of them were politically controversial. And I think what we have learned in Norway is that when you, if you want to make or to create a sovereign wealth fund, you have to make three important political decisions. One is how much to save. The second is how much to use, so how much to put in and then how much to take out of the fund. And then the third decision is where to invest.

[SPEAKER_00] And to the first question, how much to save. By law, we decided that all the oil and gas revenues are saved. Every cent, every dollar earned is saved into the fund. That's the first decision, how much to put in. The second important political decision is about how much to take out.

[SPEAKER_00] And then we created the golden fiscal rule back in 2001. And that says that the only thing we can withdraw from the fund is the expected financial real return. Meaning that we have estimated that to be 3%.

[SPEAKER_01] Do you think you would have done that differently if you knew how big the fund would become? No, I don't think so. Do you think that, for instance, it would have been a clause that the fund cannot account for more than, I don't know, now it's 25% of the state budget. Do you think, for instance, you would have put in one max at 10%?

[SPEAKER_00] No, I don't think so. But of course, I was prime minister when we decided that rule. So maybe I'm very biased. It has served nowhere well for now 26 years. The fiscal rule to only spend the expected real return. And I will always be open to other models to listen to alternati...

HIGHLIGHTS: Jens Stoltenberg

Transcript

Built for investment professionals

Every day you wait, your competitors are finding
edge in conversations you're not hearing.

HIGHLIGHTS: Jens Stoltenberg

Transcript

Built for investment professionals

Every day you wait, your competitors are findingedge in conversations you're not hearing.

Every day you wait, your competitors are finding
edge in conversations you're not hearing.