In this episode of the InsuranceAUM.com podcast, host Stewart Foley, CFA, is joined by Josh Ufberg, Senior Managing Director at Blue Owl, to discuss the evolution of the credit secondaries market and why it is becoming an increasingly important part of the private credit landscape. As private credit continues to grow, Josh shares his perspective on how secondary transactions can provide liquidity solutions while creating opportunities for investors seeking attractive risk-adjusted returns.<br><br>Stewart and Josh explore how credit secondaries work, how value is created through discounted purchases, accrued cash flows, and transaction structuring, and why insurers may find the asset class particularly compelling. They also discuss diversification, capital efficiency, shorter-duration exposures, and the broader role credit secondaries could play in insurance portfolio construction as the market continues to mature.

Episode 373: Can Credit Secondaries Solve the Liquidity Puzzle for Insurance Portfolios?

InsuranceAUM.com

# Full Transcript

**Podcast:** InsuranceAUM.com

## Participants

- **Stuart Foley** (InsuranceAUM.com)
- **Josh Huffberg** (Blue Owl)

## Transcript

Welcome to another edition of the InsuranceAUM.com podcast. Avoiding all risks is a great way to avoid order. Oversupply is the enemy of good credit. All does provide capital appreciation over the long run. The trick is to select the right gross markets. I firmly believe it's still a very good time to be an investor in real estate credit. It's there to stay. You can never time the market. Beware of the complexity of credit convexity. My name is Stuart Foley.

I'll be your host. Hey, welcome back to the InsuranceAUM.com podcast. We are the home of the world's smartest money and I'm Stuart Foley. I'm your host and we're thrilled to have you with us today. Every major private market eventually develops a secondary market. Private equity did it. Real estate did it. And now private credit appears to be reaching that inflection point as well. And for insurance investors in particular, that evolution could have important implications

not just for return opportunities, but also for liquidity, portfolio construction, and capital efficiency. Let's not forget capital efficiency. So the title of today's podcast is Can Credit Secondary Solve the Liquidity Puzzle for Insurance Portfolios? I'll get it out. I'm joined today by Josh Huffberg, Senior Managing Director at Blue Owl and a member of the Alternative Credit Investment Team. Josh leads the team's corporate and opportunistic investment efforts, including capital

solutions, fund solutions, and commercial solutions. Prior to Blue Owl, Josh was a partner at Adalia Capital Management, where he oversaw the firm's corporate and opportunistic investment activities. Earlier in his career, he was part of Goldman Sachs Specialty Situations Group. You got a love special sits, Josh. That's fantastic. You have sat on both public and private markets. We're thrilled to have you today. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for having me, Stuart.

So before we get going too far, a little background. Where'd you grow up? And if you were doing this job, what job would you most like to have instead? Sure. Well, first of all, thanks for having me. Happy to be here. I'm originally from Pennsylvania. I'm from a small town in Northeast Pennsylvania called Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. If you're familiar with that town. More famous recently because it's

proximity to Scranton, which is now indelibly in people's memories for the office. And if I were not doing this job, I've always been really interested in food and restaurants. That was actually my first job was in working in every capacity of a restaurant. So it'd probably be in some area of restaurants. But I've since learned that this is a business that I prefer. Did you cook? My first was in food service as well. Is that right?

Yes. I was on the grill at 16 at McDonald's. Absolutely. I have a feeling that your career was lofti...

Episode 373: Can Credit Secondaries Solve the Liquidity Puzzle for Insurance Portfolios?

Transcript

Built for investment professionals

Every day you wait, your competitors are finding
edge in conversations you're not hearing.

Episode 373: Can Credit Secondaries Solve the Liquidity Puzzle for Insurance Portfolios?

Transcript

Built for investment professionals

Every day you wait, your competitors are findingedge in conversations you're not hearing.

Every day you wait, your competitors are finding
edge in conversations you're not hearing.