Ara Kharazian is the lead economist at Ramp. Kharazian joins Big Technology to discuss how much companies are actually spending on AI and whether that spending is producing real value. Tune in to hear why Anthropic has overtaken OpenAI among businesses, how AI spending varies dramatically from company to company, and whether “tokenmaxing” is really happening. We also cover Anthropic’s clash with the White House, the resurgence of DeepSeek, Google’s underrated position in AI, and whether the predicted SaaS apocalypse is materializing. Hit play for a data-driven look at which AI narratives are real, which are exaggerated, and where business adoption goes next.<br><br>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

AI Fact or Fiction: The Fable Ban, Tokenmaxxing, Saaspocolypse — With Ara Kharazian

Big Technology Podcast

# Full Transcript

**Podcast:** Big Technology Podcast

## Transcript

[SPEAKER_A] How much are companies actually spending per employee on AI? Is AI winner-take-all? Is SaaS dead? And is Anthropic screwed after the Fable Five dust-up with the White House? Let's get to the bottom of these questions, separating fact and fiction with Ramp lead economist Ara Kharazian, right after this. Depending on who you ask, between 80% and 95% of enterprise AI projects fail. To get AI to work for you, you don't need more tokens, you need better people. A board pairs powerful proprietary tools with senior engineers who've seen it all. That combination means your project doesn't stall, doesn't drift, and doesn't fall. It ships. Whether you're a startup that needs to get to market or an enterprise with complex legacy challenges, Aboard delivers exactly what your business needs fast. Aboard is your partner for AI transformation. Visit aboard.com and let's build something together. Welcome to Big Technology Podcast, a show for cool-headed and nuanced conversation of the tech world and beyond. There are a lot of rumors flying in the AI industry, a lot of narratives flying in the AI industry. And what better way to attack these than to look at the actual data and separate the fact from fiction? Well, we're going to do it today. We're going to talk, of course, about how much companies are spending per employee on AI and whether tokenmaxxing is a thing. But we're also going to get into the news of the week, which is whether the White House's fabled 5 ban effectively putting export controls On Anthropic's model will have a long-term damage looking at what happened the last time Anthropic had a dust-up with the Department of Defense. We're joined by Ara Kharazian. He is the lead economist at Ramp. He's publishing some great stuff at the Ramp Economics Lab. I've been a reader of his work for a long time and I'm thrilled to welcome him to the show. Ara, great to see you.

[SPEAKER_B] Great to talk to you again. Great to be on the show for the first time.

[SPEAKER_A] Yes, first of many, I'm sure. So let's talk right off the bat about What we can anticipate the impact of the government's Fable 5 export controls on Anthropic's business to be, right? 'Cause we've seen a version of this before with the Department of Defense naming Anthropic a supply chain risk. This is obviously on a bigger scale and even if they go back on the ban, there might be some impact. I keep calling it a ban. Go back on the export controls, which is effectively a ban. There may be some impact here. So what can we expect?

[SPEAKER_B] Well, you're right to look at the Department of Defense decision from earlier this spring as the closest recent example that we might use to inform how it's going to affect Anthropic's business or business adoption going forward. I mean, let's go back to the spring when the Department of Defense labeled Anthropic a supply chain risk. Usually in most industries, for most so...

AI Fact or Fiction: The Fable Ban, Tokenmaxxing, Saaspocolypse — With Ara Kharazian

Transcript

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AI Fact or Fiction: The Fable Ban, Tokenmaxxing, Saaspocolypse — With Ara Kharazian

Transcript

Built for investment professionals

Every day you wait, your competitors are findingedge in conversations you're not hearing.

Every day you wait, your competitors are finding
edge in conversations you're not hearing.